Hallo Kollegen,

Ich habe eine Frage bitte!
Als der Zug geworden ist, hat ein vier wagen Loco Dienst in 1957 geschleppt, die Formung ARum, WLA, WLA, WLA geworden.
Der ARum war in Blau als pro der Ade 3309 Modell, der drei WLA wurde verwandelt WLu? wagen gebaut in 1941, als der WLAum war nicht verfügbar bis 1958.
Frage ist, hat die drei den WLu? von 1941 gebaut haben wiederaufgebaut? hat rot DSG oder der Blau F-Zug farben und ein 1/87 Modell steht von diesem Typ zur Verfügung?


I have a question please!
When the train became a four coach Loco hauled service in 1957, the formation became ARum, WLA, WLA, WLA.
The ARum was in Blue as per the Ade 3309 model, the three WLA were converted WLu? coaches built in 1941, as the WLAum was not available until 1958.
Question is, did the three rebuilt 1941 WLu? have red DSG or the Blue F-Zug colour's and is a 1/87 model of this type available?

Many thanks
Grusse,
David

Hello David,

I'm not sure that we are talking about the same train.

The "Komet" VT 10 551 is described here. There is one Diesel engine at each end and in between 6 cars on 2 axle bogies. Only an additional saloon wagon is a standard coach wagon on two 2 axle bogies.

Unfortunately I could not find any coloured pics with the "Komet".

The "Senator" VT 10 501 is in silver - red. This one was build by Märklin for the insider club members in 2008 in Z and HO gauge.

Gruß, Heinz

Edit: Info about colour and model 1:87.

Hallo Heinz,
nein ihr redet wohl nicht vom gleichen Zug.
David meint wohl den lokbespannten Ersatzzug der für den "Komet" eingesetzt wurde wenn dieser wegen Schäden ausfiel und die gleiche Bezeichnung im Laufplan hatte.
Ob dieser nach Außerdienststellung des VT 10 551 dauerhaft unter der gleichen Bezeichnung fuhr weiß ich nicht, vielleicht wissen ja unsere Expterten mehr.
Seine Eingangsfrage eines lokbespannten Zuges ist meiner Meinung nach völlig korrekt.
David möchte wissen ob diese Wagen im DSG Design unterwegs waren oder in den F-Zugfarben der 50er Jahre UND ob es davon Modelle gibt.

Über den Senator weiß ich etwas mehr bescheid und führe diese Fakten kurz an, weil sie hilfreich sein könnten um Davids Frage besser zu verstehen.

Der Ersatzug für den VT 10 501 "Senator" wurde aus zwei F-Zugwagen gebildet und einem Speisewagen - Zuglok war ab Hamburg meist eine V200, ob und wo mit welchen Loks umgespannt wurde weiß ich für diesen Zug leider nicht.
Da der "Komet" ein Nachtzug war, welcher für die DSG gebaut wurde, ist die Frage berechtigt ob dieser Zug im Gegensatz zum "Senator" Ersatzzug mit DSG Wagen unterwegs war.

Wie gesagt ich weiß nichts genaues und hoffe auf genauere Angaben von den Experten.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Julian

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi David,
I just explained that a train with coaches called "Komet" really existed.
It looks like there has been a confusion with the VT 10 551.
I can´t answer your question properly but hope that there are real experts who know about the replacement train for the Komet.
I guess that is the train you´re looking for, if there are no useful comments within the next few days i´ll try to help you out with further research.
The information about the "Komet" VT 10 551 is extremely rare in the web and it is even harder to find out something useful about the replacement train.
I think you need real readings about german railroad history to find out more.
The assumption that the train might have been made of DSG coaches is not beside the point when you look at the fact that the Komet was a night train which was built for the DSG.
I am looking forward for more information - the Komet and the Senator are really interesting trains.

Best Regards
Julian

Hello Heinz and Julian,


Thank you for the reply, it's not the VT10, but a Loco hauled train.
I found this on the subject viewtopic.php?t=18650,-welche-modelle-fuer-die-ersatzkomposition-des-komet-express.html but it does not offer an answer.
The train is described by Ronald Krug on Drehscheibe.
Thinking logically the Schlafwagen should be DSG red, would be good to find out more.

Many thanks again, very much appreciated,
Grusse,
David

Zitat von adecoaches26point4

---

I found this on the subject viewtopic.php?t=18650,-welche-modelle-fuer-die-ersatzkomposition-des-komet-express.html but it does not offer an answer.

---

Hi David,

all three WL coaches in the formation described by me in the thread you linked to are part of the same DSG rotation (No 6420). Thus it is more than likely that these coaches displayed standard DSG livery.

Hi Detlef,


I was intrigued, when I saw the Ronald Krug description of the train, an all red Night F-Zug!!!!
Much cheaper train to have than the models of the VT10 units and a real train too
The problem may be in my translation ops:

Friendly regards,
David

Hello Julian and Detlef,

nobody is perfect.

Never heard about a loco hault replacement train for the "Komet". Thank you guys for your help.

And this is what I really like here: There is somebody who knows the answer.

Friendly regards, Heinz

Hi All,

These threads by Ronald Krug on Drehsheibe, should throw more light on the Train

F(T) 49/50 "Komet" Ersatzzug - Info und Frage

geschrieben von: Ronald Krug

Datum: 27.07.08 20:32

I thought the train was V200 hauled, but the above shows steam locos ops:

This one explains the coaches for the train.


F(T) 49/50 "Komet" Ersatzzug Nachtrag zur Zugbildung

geschrieben von: Ronald Krug

Datum: 22.08.08 19:44

Sorry I have shown the posts in this way, not sure if I was allowed to Copy and paste from one forum to another!

Enjoy your Trains,
Grusse,
David

As a ARum is not available as a model at present, is there a suitable substitute 26.4 WR in 1/87?
If not, can you recommend any other?

Many thanks,
Grusse,
David

Zitat von adecoaches26point4

---

As a ARum is not available as a model at present, is there a suitable substitute 26.4 WR in 1/87?
If not, can you recommend any other?

Many thanks,
Grusse,
David

---

Hi David,

the first 26,4 m WR4üm built was the WR4üm-62 exclusively used in the 1962 Rheingold and as from 1963 in the Rheinpfeil as well. This was followed by the WR4üm-64 which eventually complemented/substituted the prewar design WRs as from 1964. An Epoch III Model of this WR is currently offered by Rivarossi (No HR 4015). Roco offered this type in Epoch III as well, but its sold out for some years now.

An ARüm is announced as part of the Schwabenpfeil set 1 by Hobbytrain. This is currently expected (by my dealer) in September.
http://www.lemkecollection.de/product.asp?pID=10315&cID=324

For trains around 1960 the 1939 type WR would still be the best substitute.

Hi Julian,

I know this is off topic, I have started research into the the Senator and have found these period photographs, which might be of interest.
http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...&search=Senator
http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...&search=senator
http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...&search=senator
http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...&search=senator
http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...&search=senator
http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...&search=senator

Grusse,
David

Hello David,
I don´t mind wether it´s off topic.
A really interesting website - I didn´t knew that the VT 08.5 also has been used as a replacement train for the "Senator".
I love the pictures where you can see hamburgs granary city. That picture is stunningly beautiful to me.
Moreover the pictures of the Prototype V200 are absolutely fantastic.
I think until today there has happened nothing better than the design of the 50s in railroad history.
I am impressed - thank you for these pictures David I appreciate it.

Best Regards

Julian (enjoy your trains too;)

Hallo Julian,

der VT 10 501 ist ja bereits im November 1957 wieder aus dem regulären Fahrbetrieb genommen worden. Die VT 08.5 auf den Bildern sind also im Grunde keine Ersatzzüge mehr, sondern die reguläre Garnitur für den Senator in dieser Periode.

In den späten 50er Jahre war ein Wechsel zwischen Lok-bespannten F-Zügen und VT 08.5 bei bei Fahrplan-Wechel wohl häufiger anzutreffen. Da "grabe" ich noch.

Hallo zusammen,

ist der Wagen hinter der Lok auf diesem Bild der Autotransportwagen, der aus dem Adenauer-Set bzw. von Liliput bekannt ist? Heißt das dann, daß der Senator zumindest zeitweise PKWs transportierte?

Fragen über Fragen

Gruß
Martin

Zitat von silz_essen

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Hallo zusammen,

ist der Wagen hinter der Lok auf diesem Bild der Autotransportwagen, der aus dem Adenauer-Set bzw. von Liliput bekannt ist? Heißt das dann, daß der Senator zumindest zeitweise PKWs transportierte?

Fragen über Fragen

Gruß
Martin

---

Hallo Martin,

nicht der Senator, der auf dem von dir verlinkten Bild zu sehen ist, sondern der Komet führte an manchen Verkehrstagen Autotransportwagen mit.
Schau mal in diesen Thread: viewtopic.php?t=18650,-welche-modelle-fuer-die-ersatzkomposition-des-komet-express.html

Hello Detlef,


So we are looking at wrongly scripted Photographs?
Is this also the Komet?
http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...&search=Senator

Best Regards,
David

Zitat von adecoaches26point4

---

Hello Detlef,


So we are looking at wrongly scripted Photographs?
Is this also the Komet?
http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...&search=Senator

Best Regards,
David

---

Hi David,

seems that my approach of trying to prevent people from mixing up the Senator with the Komet is a complete desaster. ops:
What I tried to explain to Martin was: As the photo he linked to showed the Senator, the Coach he referred to cannot be a car transportation waggon, as it was the Komet and not the Senator which was an Autoreisezug on certain days of operation.

The photo you linked to displays a normal Daytime F-Zug with 3 refurbished blue prewar coaches (I assume all of Group 39 type) plus a red Dining Car (Type 28 or 30) in position 2. So it can't be the night train Komet.

The Senator VT was as unreliabe as the Komet VT. Thus replacemnt formations for both were rather the rule than the exception.

Hi Detlef,

Thank you for clearing up my confusion ops:
Yet another question, when I looked at the photo, I thought the coach was one of the converted SWRPwPost4ü-35 / ABPwR4üe-35/52 / APwR4üe-35/52 observation coaches from the Henschel Wegmann Zug.
But I am undoubtably wrong

Best Regards,
David

Zitat von adecoaches26point4

---

But I am undoubtably wrong

---

Hi David,

who knows? I do not.

I assume we are now talking about this foto: http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...&search=senator

I posted an ID request at the DSO-Wagenforum. Thanks to Martin for pointing at it.

Hallo Modelbahners,

Meine Forschung hat auf einige mehr Bilder vom „Komet“ gedreht, hoffe ich, dass sie von Interesse sind!

http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...=0&search=Komet
http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...=1&search=Komet
http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...=3&search=Komet
http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...=4&search=Komet
http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...=5&search=Komet
http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/?acti...=6&search=Komet

My research has turned up some more pictures of the "Komet", I hope they are of interest!

Freundliche Grüße nach Deutschland,
David

Hi Martin and David,

hitherto I got two replies to my inquiry on the Wagen-Forum. I do not expect more to come.

My conclusion is:

The Coach is Salon-Autotransportwagen (Sdr Pw 4üe(F)-39).

Based on the assumption, that the caption of the Hollnagel foto is correct, it is very likely that this waggon was exceptionally added to the formation of F 4 for the purpose of transfer.

I should havee been mor alert, when Martin posted his correct identification proposal, as I normally like documented unconventional operational configurations. Well, somehow I had blinkers on ops: ; let's hope that it was only a temoprary weakness and not a sign of an accelerating ageing process.